Comments on: Schizophrenia and Autism: The Two Cultures. http://the-mouse-trap.com/2006/11/23/schizophrenia-and-autism-the-two-cultures/ Sat, 21 Jan 2012 16:20:04 +0000 hourly 1 By: David Winter http://the-mouse-trap.com/2006/11/23/schizophrenia-and-autism-the-two-cultures/#comment-726 David Winter Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:38:37 +0000 http://the-mouse-trap.com/?p=96#comment-726 Hi You are probably aware that your two poles map almost seamlessly on to the Sensing-Intuition dimensions of MBTI personality typing. Perhaps Jung got there before you. Hi
You are probably aware that your two poles map almost seamlessly on to the Sensing-Intuition dimensions of MBTI personality typing. Perhaps Jung got there before you.

]]> By: Anonymous http://the-mouse-trap.com/2006/11/23/schizophrenia-and-autism-the-two-cultures/#comment-297 Anonymous Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:46:00 +0000 http://the-mouse-trap.com/?p=96#comment-297 I believe children with relatively mild ASD, who often go undiagnosed and fall through the cracks, wind up with diagnosable mental disorders in adulthood. My son has ASD/NVLD and is very cognitively disorganized, especially with tasks that are challenging, which are many; and yet he was adding and subtracting triple digits in his head at age 5 and knows more about geography and related world languages than most adults on this forum. My mother has schizoaffective disorder and was similarly brilliant and socially misfit and obstinate and aloof as a child, though probably she was not as disorganized as my son. A theory that polarizes these 2 areas (psychotic disorders and ASD) I think is missing something significant. My belief is that if ASD is intervened upon early and persistently, the risk of adult mental illness, not to mention drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and crime will be reduced. Just my opinion from the middle of a generational sandwich of disorder. I believe children with relatively mild ASD, who often go undiagnosed and fall through the cracks, wind up with diagnosable mental disorders in adulthood. My son has ASD/NVLD and is very cognitively disorganized, especially with tasks that are challenging, which are many; and yet he was adding and subtracting triple digits in his head at age 5 and knows more about geography and related world languages than most adults on this forum. My mother has schizoaffective disorder and was similarly brilliant and socially misfit and obstinate and aloof as a child, though probably she was not as disorganized as my son. A theory that polarizes these 2 areas (psychotic disorders and ASD) I think is missing something significant. My belief is that if ASD is intervened upon early and persistently, the risk of adult mental illness, not to mention drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and crime will be reduced. Just my opinion from the middle of a generational sandwich of disorder.

]]> By: Julia http://the-mouse-trap.com/2006/11/23/schizophrenia-and-autism-the-two-cultures/#comment-267 Julia Mon, 15 Sep 2008 22:39:00 +0000 http://the-mouse-trap.com/?p=96#comment-267 Thank you! Thank you!

]]> By: Sandy G http://the-mouse-trap.com/2006/11/23/schizophrenia-and-autism-the-two-cultures/#comment-266 Sandy G Mon, 15 Sep 2008 07:43:00 +0000 http://the-mouse-trap.com/?p=96#comment-266 Hi Julia,<br/><br/>One way to look at this would be to treat this as similar to mixed episodes in bipolar disorder. Here both symptoms of Mania and depression are present in the same individual though traditionally Mania and depression are thought of as opposite poles on a continuum. In effect though Autism and Schizophrenia/psychosis are opposite extremes, in some individuals both may be present. However, also note the differences form mixed episodes in bipolar; there the mixed state as well as mania and depression happen in the same individual over time; here the disorders itself are simultaneously present in the individual.<br/><br/>Another example I can think of is of recessive alleles for both disorder at the same gene locus. (lets for example consider that eye color is due to recessive alleles at the eye-color locus). Now suppose that recessive allele S confers risk of schizophrenia and N is the normal variant. so SS is schizophrenic; SN is on the continuum toward schizophrenia and normality, perhaps a schizotypal individual. Suppose also that recessive allele A at the same locus makes one susceptible to Autism (they are opposite poles so evidently should work on same locus / loci). Thus AA is autistic and AN is asperper's; now consider the rare scenario where one gets AS genotype ; in this case one might be asperger's and schizotypal; in rare scenario this may develop into full-blown child-onset schizophrenia and classified as PDD_NOS or McDD. <br/><br/>To test my theory one can see the frequencies of Autistic and Schizophrenics and also the McDD iondividuals. If there was no interaction, Autism and schizophrenia should be independently inherited and P(mcDD) = P(Autism) * p(schizophrenia) where P is probability of an individual in a population belonging to that disorder. As my theory predicts there should be some interaction (the gene locus is same), so P(mcDD) should be different from that calculated from above (though I lack the requisite math knowledge to come up with a good formula!)<br/><br/>Hope this clarifies!! Hi Julia,

One way to look at this would be to treat this as similar to mixed episodes in bipolar disorder. Here both symptoms of Mania and depression are present in the same individual though traditionally Mania and depression are thought of as opposite poles on a continuum. In effect though Autism and Schizophrenia/psychosis are opposite extremes, in some individuals both may be present. However, also note the differences form mixed episodes in bipolar; there the mixed state as well as mania and depression happen in the same individual over time; here the disorders itself are simultaneously present in the individual.

Another example I can think of is of recessive alleles for both disorder at the same gene locus. (lets for example consider that eye color is due to recessive alleles at the eye-color locus). Now suppose that recessive allele S confers risk of schizophrenia and N is the normal variant. so SS is schizophrenic; SN is on the continuum toward schizophrenia and normality, perhaps a schizotypal individual. Suppose also that recessive allele A at the same locus makes one susceptible to Autism (they are opposite poles so evidently should work on same locus / loci). Thus AA is autistic and AN is asperper’s; now consider the rare scenario where one gets AS genotype ; in this case one might be asperger’s and schizotypal; in rare scenario this may develop into full-blown child-onset schizophrenia and classified as PDD_NOS or McDD.

To test my theory one can see the frequencies of Autistic and Schizophrenics and also the McDD iondividuals. If there was no interaction, Autism and schizophrenia should be independently inherited and P(mcDD) = P(Autism) * p(schizophrenia) where P is probability of an individual in a population belonging to that disorder. As my theory predicts there should be some interaction (the gene locus is same), so P(mcDD) should be different from that calculated from above (though I lack the requisite math knowledge to come up with a good formula!)

Hope this clarifies!!

]]> By: Julia http://the-mouse-trap.com/2006/11/23/schizophrenia-and-autism-the-two-cultures/#comment-263 Julia Fri, 12 Sep 2008 14:18:00 +0000 http://the-mouse-trap.com/?p=96#comment-263 What do you make of McDD?<br/><br/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDD<br/><br/>For example, I am a diagnosed childhoo-onset paranoid schizophrenic, but I am also diagnosed with Aspergers, and both of the labels are valid. My brain does ALL of the things you have described, for noth conditions. How does your theory account for this? What do you make of McDD?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDD

For example, I am a diagnosed childhoo-onset paranoid schizophrenic, but I am also diagnosed with Aspergers, and both of the labels are valid. My brain does ALL of the things you have described, for noth conditions. How does your theory account for this?

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